Welcome to Beyond the Bell podcast where you get an inside look into school life. We cover school related topics that support your child's education and well being. As you listen along, we hope you'll gain insights for navigating school with your child and leave with a deeper sense of connection between school and home. Here's your host, Chantelle Quesnelle. 

Chantelle: Welcome Simcoe Muskoka families to another episode of Beyond the Bell. Today's community spotlight is on the Gilbert Centre and pflag with guests Ellis and Daniela.

Ellis, they/them, is a queer trans nonbinary settler living and working in Barrie as the queer and trans program manager at the Gilbert Centre. They have a master's degree in social justice education and have spent their career building community with and advocating alongside queer and trans youth people in BC in Ontario.

Daniella, she/they, is an advocate for queer and trans children, youth and adults working at the Gilbert Centre as the Safer Spaces Spaces administrator and as the care coordinator in harm reduction, volunteering with pflag Canada as the Barrie Simcoe County chapter leader. And in their personal life as a mom celebrating her adult children, one of whom is transgender. Daniela is passionate about sharing facts, rooted in lived experience and credible research to dispel myths and disinformation, alleviating fears and helping create safer, more inclusive spaces throughout Simcoe Muskoka and beyond.

Welcome, Daniela and Ellis. 

Ellis: Thank you so much for helping us Chantelel.

Daniela: Yes. Thank you. It's good to be here.  

Chantelle:  Well, I wonder for um our parents and families listening today if we can start with the importance of why. Why these um community supports are so important for youth and families in Simcoe Muskoka.

Ellis:  The youth that, that we work with, and um you know, in, in my own lived experience of, of growing up um constantly hearing messages that um either you don't know who you are, even when you feel like you do or that who you know you are is wrong, is bad. Um or that being who you are means that you're gonna have a really hard life and you're not gonna be loved. Um and you know, getting those messages not just from society, not just from peers, but also from parents and caregivers. We know that can cause all kinds of um you know, the, the sort of stigma, oppression, um bullying, all those kind of things can cause a lot of um a lot of challenges for folks. I don't like to focus on kind of the statistics about um mental illness or suicidality. Um there's, there's lots of that information for, for queer and trans folks about, you know, rates um of those things that are, we know, are very high. Um But I think the, you know, I like to talk about the importance of um individual family and community supports uh for really providing queer and trans young people with a lot of affirmation with a space to freely explore with a space to um see adults that are living and thriving and, you know, being loved and being in community and, and sort of like being who, being who we want to be in the world uh for, for young people, queer and trans, young people, especially um having even one sort of like trusted adult, having one adult that is supportive and caring and um you know, a good role model for them is like hugely protective. In, in our work at the Gilbert Centre, we hope to be those, those adults for, for a lot of our young folks, but also to do things like being on this podcast and other advocacy with parents and caregivers and, and, you know, folks working in schools so that we can have more adults that are, you know, that will be that supportive, loving um person for, for these young people. 

Daniela: Absolutely yes. To everything that Ellis has just said. And I would add to that from, from a parent's perspective, many, many moons ago, I was handed my very first bundle of joy and told, congratulations it's a insert one of the two binary gender choices here. My knowledge and awareness around what it is to be transgender was virtually non-existent. So my child grew up in an environment where he was tremendously loved and cared for and supported within the parameters that we knew to provide, supported all in all the ways that we knew how and still finding themselves lacking any representation whatsoever in, in the home and in the world around them and effectively being rendered invisible every single day. And it wasn't until that child became a youth.

And then you graduated from high school, went off to university and was sitting in a, a safer-spaces kind of training where um gender and sexuality and orientation and all of that was being explored, um and recognized themselves being described from the front of the room for the very first time. And that led to a conversation uh where “mom, I have something to tell you, whatever it is. I'm, I'm here” and they identified initially as a gen gender queer non binary. And my response was, “I love you. I am not sure what that means. How can I support you?” And it's been roughly 12/13 years since that conversation, that initial conversation and my son now identifies as trans masculine. And it's been an ongoing journey of learning and it is my firm belief that every child, including my own, deserved to be seen from the very get-go and what prevented me from seeing my child when they were very young, was an absence of understanding, an absence of information, education. I lived in complete ignorance and it's only over the last 10ish years that I've seen their, their inner joy blossom and their comfort, comfortability in their own skin.

But I'm, I am here to advocate for, for queer and, and especially for trans youth because that, that is where my lived experience is rooted. And I've seen, I've seen the harmful impact from the front row. 

Chantelle: And I think that's, you know, one of the reasons why we're all here together today, um to think about um what a community building looks like for youth, what community building and um explore, like knowledge-exploring also looks like for parents, caregivers and families and the importance of systems like the school system to look at the ways that we um uh acknowledge and celebrate the um identities of each youth in our, our buildings and the impact that that has on their well being.

Ellis: There has actually been a, a wide range of gender diversity and so many completely different understandings of what gender even is and what it means and how it relates to our physical bodies. Like throughout all of human history, I think if you're not willing to accept the idea that it's actually a perfectly normal human way to be, to be trans and to be queer, um it's gonna be really hard for us to have a conversation. Not only because you're then not seeing my humanity, you're not seeing me as a human, but also because you're, you're sort of separate from, from your own humanity and, and um like actually the whole history of our species.

And so I think that's, you know, that's a, that's a really important message for folks and especially that I want to get out to parents and caregivers. Um You know, Daniella, you talked about um your child coming out with one identity or sort of sharing one identity and then that sort of shifting into a different identity. That does not mean that the, the first way that, that Daniella's child identified was wrong, that they were wrong, you know about themselves. And now they're right, many people who are cisgender and that means, um you know, they, they feel their gender is what it was, they were told it was at birth or, or what their parents or caregivers were told it was at birth. Um That's what cisgender means. Um Don't really have to think about it because they go through the world and it's just accepted, right? But for, for trans people, um we have to think about it and in fact, it's thrown in our face all the time, you know, so it's, it actually is, of course, it's gonna be a, it's gonna be a process and things can change. Um and um and that's ok and that doesn't mean that your kid was wrong about themselves. Um, if they say one thing and then it changes, um, that's extremely, extremely common. 

I think um, you know, something that's so important is Daniella said as well about, you know, speaking with, with her child, “I love you. I don't know what that means.” That's ok! I actually really like, I mean, I, I have worked with, with hundreds of Korean trans youth in, in my, um career and, and the expectation isn't um getting it perfect. It's knowing that, knowing that they're loved, knowing that they're accepted and seen and supported and that doesn't have to be perfect, right? It's a lot more about maintaining relationship and um and valuing their autonomy. “It's OK. You are telling me about who you are and I see that even if I don't understand it and then I will do the work and we can do the work together to try and understand it.” We actually expect that there are going to be queer and trans students in our schools in our classrooms. We expect that people are going to be ex, experimented with their gender and their sexuality and learning these things. And so how do we create a safer container for that? 

Daniela: Yes. To all of the things you said. And especially in the context of um exploring and finding their identity as human beings who are separate and distinct from their parents and family. In that very delicate and tenuous part of our development where we are stepping into our own as individuated human beings, but we are still so dependent on that safety net that unconditional love from our parents and families provides us. 

I want to share a mistake that I made early on because I very much wanted to learn and grow together with my young adult. And in my enthusiasm and desire to support what I was doing was unwittingly expecting them to shoulder the emotional load of my learning experience and, and all of what I was experiencing in supporting my child in, um their journey. And I would encourage parents, this journey of growth and learning, it needs to be separate and distinct. As a parent, your journey needs to be separate and distinct from your child's. I started taking on responsibility for self education and then I would circle back and say to my child, my adult child, “this is what I've learned. Is this how you experience it? Does this work for you or do you need it to look a little bit different? Uh Do you need it to look entirely different?” Um and those fact-checks were a way for me to um customize and adapt what I was learning in a way that actually worked for my kiddo. And if parents don't know where to start looking, they can reach out to the Gilbert Centre, um they can reach out to pflag. 

Chantelle: We have this, this notion of act or get curious or, and, and figure out what that needs to look like, parts of it might happen together, but really important to um explore what community and resources that you need um for that learning journey.

Um which kind of takes us to the next section that we are hoping to talk about in terms of Gilbert Centre and, and pflag, what those, um resources and services are so that our listeners have that awareness and, and how to go about accessing them. 

Ellis: We are um at the Gilbert Centre like super based on community and community need. And so we run programming for youth that are ages 12 to 29. Um we have sort of two sets of programming. So our QT program is for 12 to 19. Um we basically do primarily social programming. So social groups uh where we do crafts, play games, um do all that kind of stuff, but mostly to build community and just um give you the opportunity to be in spaces with people that are like them and where they're safe and uh safe to explore um and, and ask questions, all those kinds of things. And then we also have an online community space via Discord. It's a closed community group for um queer and trans youth ages 12 to 19 where, that's a, that's a space that we sort of open up once a week.

Uh and then we also have our Gen Q program for young people ages 20 to 29 and that meets um the 1st and 3rd Thursday of every month, and that is similar things, social community group and we do so much more at the Gilbert Centre. So please do go to our website, please check us out. But that's all I'll share for now.

Daniela: So for, for pflag, um pflag at the national level is a registered charity. So pflag Canada.  For the most part, our local chapters including the one here in Barrie, which serves Simcoe Muskoka, um are all, the entire organization is 100% volunteer-driven.

We also offer uh peer, peer facilitated support meetings a couple of times a month, we have, uh a Facebook page that we share some information out through and we have a private Facebook group for folks who are wanting to learn or, or access support in that way. 

Ellis: Um Daniella and I so the, the Gilbert Centre and pflag Barrie are partnering to um put on a start up families and transition program locally. So it's a program that was developed by Central Toronto Youth Services. It's an awesome program. It's like a closed group about nine or 10 weeks for parents and caregivers, but most of it is about how to create and maintain um you know, strong, healthy relationships within families with, with children through, um through gender-exploration and gender-transition. And um that's, that's really the focus is just how, how do we keep families sort of strong and, and supporting one another. 

Chantelle: I'm so grateful for both of you for your time um in connecting with, with me and, and being on this podcast and the opportunity to share um and promote resources in Simcoe Muskoka.

I think that is just so important. Um and I also hope that through this conversation um with Simcoe Muskoka Catholic uh District School Board parents and families that um we've prompted some, some curiosity and some reflection and some openness to, to lean in, to, to listen to believe um and to, to take, you know, action with curiosity, with connection, um all rooted in, in relationship. And so it is really wonderful to be together today. So thank you very much. If there's anything that, that you want to say to, to wrap up this episode, the, the floor is yours.

Daniela: I just want to say thank you for this opportunity. It's been such a beautifully affirming conversation. Um and to, to parents who are just learning that they have a trans child. Uh I, I wanna offer the encouragement that this, this journey of parenting a transhuman is the greatest blessing of my life, and I have discovered, and uncovered the most beautiful pieces of me on this journey. So fears, yes, absolutely we're going to have them. And feeling those big feels is is to be expected. And if, if the desire for support exists pflag is here for parents who are going through stuff and, and need somewhere to um unpack the emotional baggage that comes with the journey. And um please don't let that fear stop you. I think when we are willing to step into those very uncomfy spaces, the rewards on the other side of that are so great. Please do not rob yourself or your child of the experience of going there. 

Ellis: Thank you so much um for having us. And I think my really quick last thing is um if someone comes out to you as trans or non-binary gender diverse, believe them, uh the idea that it could be a trend is, is, is false because it's, it is really hard in our society to be trans, right?

Like it is actually quite challenging. And so um if someone has, has worked up the courage um and has thought deeply enough uh and, and has realized that this truth for them and, and they're trusting you with that information. Um please hold it with kindness and belief. Um And I wanna say that even though as I just highlighted, it's really hard, um for me being trans is, is, is the best, my favourite part of myself. Something that I feel so deeply blessed that it's a part of my experience because um I get to experience the world, um with my whole self and I get to be open and it has opened me to all the different ways of living and being um that, that we as humans and, and, you know, people on the planet have, have access to and it's, that's really beautiful. Sometimes parents and caregivers and, and people um you know, can, can act out of fear that uh that if their child is trans, they're gonna have a really hard life.

And I just want to say that all like being trans actually has made my life so much infinitely um better. And that is very real and very possible. 

Chantelle: Wonderful. Well, thank you for, for sharing that. I think we've um you know, in the, the very brief time that we had shared a little bit of information um that our youth can access, our queer and trans youth can access, and, and information around where um parents and caregivers families can access. And it sounds like really both are Centred in building community and getting curious and having um you know, evidence-informed information and resources and all being rooted in, in relationship and the building, the co-building of, of safer spaces, which is really important both in these spaces and certainly in our schools as well.

Thanks for listening to Beyond The Bell podcast. We hope you found today's episode helpful. Beyond The Bell is brought to you by the Simcoe Muskoka Catholic District School Board and our Catholic Parent Involvement Committee. It's hosted by Chantelle Quesnelle. Pauline Stevenson is our executive producer. Episodes are produced and edited by Portage Creative. You can find our show notes in previous episodes on our podcast website, beyondthebell.ca. If you like today's episode, leave us a review. If you have any suggestions for future episodes or any questions or comments about Beyond The Bell Podcast, you can send an email to info@smcdsb.on.ca. Thanks again for joining us.

We'll see you next time.